Racism, today
I don't know if it's bad faith or just a well-intentioned difference in perception, but sometimes the ignorance of people with no clue about the politics, economics, and history of race and racism in this country make me so angry that I almost go blind. This thoroughly obnoxious post on National Review's Corner provides a prime example. The post-er, Lisa Schiffren, praises Condoleezza Rice for overcoming the segregation she witnessed as a youth in Alabama to become a good conservative, stop worrying, and learn to love America, as opposed to bad bad Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama (who she bizarrely characterizes as offering "unrelenting gloominess" and "tribalism", making me wonder if she's ever heard anything Barack Obama has actually said).
This is a common conservative theme, to attribute the grievances of the poor or people of color to the individual flaws they see as prevalent in each community (while never failing to enable and amplify grievances of white men). The relief conservatives exhibit when they find that black person they like, who will mitigate the challenge that America's racist history poses to their worldview, is embarrassing. Anything but public policy choices to explain away persistent racial discrepancies! Help!
For everyone who claims that their grandparents and great-grandparents did just fine when they got off the boat without any affirmative action, or whatever, let's bust this myth now. The modern predominantly white American middle class is a product of government policies that, while successful, actively excluded African-Americans. The Fair Labor Standards Act. The GI Bill. Social Security. Collective bargaining. Subsidized home ownership. (Details here). The separate water fountains and riots when black people showed up at Little Rock High schools and public housing for veterans in Chicago is just gravy.
All the tut-tutting by the Lisa Schiffrens of the world, concern-trolling that if only the black people of America could just get over it already, like Condoleezza Rice did, then they'd be OK, doesn't address this. I mean, conservatives were blaming black people for their disproportionate share of social and economic woes back during the heyday of Jim Crow, so it's nothing new, but it's just as pernicious. If you follow this viewpoint to its logical conclusion, conservatives would have to argue that African-Americans are worse off than white Americans because, person by person, they just have less virtue than white people do. Not enough Condoleezza Rices around, alas.
If a black presidential candidate who doesn't even say this stuff but is associated with someone who does is too radioactive to be elected president, then we truly haven't made the progress that conservatives like Lisa Schiffren desperately want to believe that we have.
This is a common conservative theme, to attribute the grievances of the poor or people of color to the individual flaws they see as prevalent in each community (while never failing to enable and amplify grievances of white men). The relief conservatives exhibit when they find that black person they like, who will mitigate the challenge that America's racist history poses to their worldview, is embarrassing. Anything but public policy choices to explain away persistent racial discrepancies! Help!
For everyone who claims that their grandparents and great-grandparents did just fine when they got off the boat without any affirmative action, or whatever, let's bust this myth now. The modern predominantly white American middle class is a product of government policies that, while successful, actively excluded African-Americans. The Fair Labor Standards Act. The GI Bill. Social Security. Collective bargaining. Subsidized home ownership. (Details here). The separate water fountains and riots when black people showed up at Little Rock High schools and public housing for veterans in Chicago is just gravy.
All the tut-tutting by the Lisa Schiffrens of the world, concern-trolling that if only the black people of America could just get over it already, like Condoleezza Rice did, then they'd be OK, doesn't address this. I mean, conservatives were blaming black people for their disproportionate share of social and economic woes back during the heyday of Jim Crow, so it's nothing new, but it's just as pernicious. If you follow this viewpoint to its logical conclusion, conservatives would have to argue that African-Americans are worse off than white Americans because, person by person, they just have less virtue than white people do. Not enough Condoleezza Rices around, alas.
If a black presidential candidate who doesn't even say this stuff but is associated with someone who does is too radioactive to be elected president, then we truly haven't made the progress that conservatives like Lisa Schiffren desperately want to believe that we have.
Labels: racism
posted by honestpartisan | 10:54 PM
15 Comments:
"I don't know if it's bad faith or just a well-intentioned difference in perception..."
I usually assume it's simple ignorance, at least until you put the facts on the table. If they still argue, I think you can make a good case that they're arguing in bad faith.
Segregation has been dead for 40 years. The civil rights bill is decades old.
I don't care if the black community ever forgives whites for past offenses. They're equal now, and its been generations since. Most blacks alive today were born years after segregation.
Race relations shouldn't be an issue anymore.
Oh, free, if only it were true.
Sigh.
"After submitting 5,000 resumés to 1,250 advertisers seeking administrative and sales help, researchers in both cities found that Brendan, Gregg, Emily and Anne received 50 percent more responses across the board than Tamika, Aisha, Rasheed and Tyrone.
Now, this was five years ago. Maybe racism has been solved since then.
Race relations shouldn't be an issue anymore.
I see. And you'd apply that same sentiment to conservative after conservative who raises race relations as an issue when it suits their needs?
Segregation has been dead for 40 years.
Really?
They're equal now,
Right, except when it comes to wealth, income, prison sentences for the same crime, home ownership, education, life expectancy, and likelihood of having a subprime mortgage even when one qualifies for a lower-interest mortgage.
I'd link to more pages that rebut what you say, but smoke is starting to pour out of my browser.
And just think, the same racial group that is worse off just happens to be the same racial group singled out for slavery, Jim Crow, and denial of government benefits that created the modern middle class. It's almost like there's a connection between the two or something.
By all means HP, point out which states still maintain segregated schools mandated by law? Which US Federal or State law authorizes discrimination based on race?
I suppose you being an attorney you've never heard of this law-
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html
I think the only thing smoking are your ears from me challenging a world view. There are some signifigant problems faced by the black community, and most of them are caused by said community. Latinos, Asians and Middle Easterners all run into stupid individuals from time to time, and you don't hear them crying about not having thier every want and need provided by the government and they aren't going to prison in reccord numbers.
Its time the black community took responsibility for thier own problems and stopped blaming whitey and letting thier own brand of racisim shoot them in the foot. I'm not saying all blacks are at fault for the woes of the black community- what I am saying the true problems of blacks stems from black on black crime, rampant father abandonment, willful unemployment, welfare dependance, and failure to take advantage of educational opportunites. Its just easier to blame the white man than listen to Bill Cosbey.
There are racist whites out there, but not near enough to bring down 33% of the populaton, especially with the laws working against them in every way. If Asians or Latino's had the wealth of government money blacks do, we'd own the Universe by now, not be middle class! We don't look anything like the whites, so I don't want to hear that excuse that I so often do. The main problem I saw growing up in Black ghettos growing up was the lack of father's, thier sons having 16 baby mommas and refusing to get a job to instead steal and sell crack. Gee, I think that might have an impact. You can preach your white middle class crap from NYC all you want. You know where I'm from dude. I grew up in south south Queens and by the harbor in Staten Island in one room apartments. My mom worked her way from the prosecutor's office to being a claims manager for a huge legal malpractice insurance agency making more than many of the attorneys. I myself did very well last year. You can make it in America as a minority, and its bullshit pure bullshit to say otherwise. Especially being me- having grown up in places white guys like you HP aren't allowed to drive into, I know what's up. The prevailing problems of the black community are blacks who need to get thier heads out of thier asses and quit passing the blame.
First, I love that you say that race relations shouldn't be an issue anymore, and then use the fact that I'm white to try to discredit me. Typical conservative.
Second, if you think that living in neighborhoods where white guys aren't allowed to drive confers so much credibility on your point of view, then you'd have to credit other people who live there as well, right? What do you want to wager that most of them agree with me and not you?
Third, your formulation, that black people themselves are to blame to the extent that black people are worse off than white people, begs the question. Does the level of human flaws and failings just happen to be greater in the black community than in the white community?
Lastly, I don't think that my personal experience is relevant; I don't think you'd agree with me even if I came from a different background. But I do chafe at your unfounded implication that I've been cloistered in an all-white theoretical bubble. I happen to have been all over the "places that white guys aren't allowed to drive into." I represented indigent clients in the South Bronx for eight years (first at the Hub, at 150th and Courtlandt, then near Hunts Point, at 163rd and Southern Blvd.) I attended a predominantly-black high school in Chicago and live in a predominantly black and Latino neighborhood in Brooklyn. Again, this doesn't implicate the merits of my arguments, which have nothing to do with my personal life. But you live by the ad hominem, die by the ad hominem.
First, I love that you say that race relations shouldn't be an issue anymore, and then use the fact that I'm white to try to discredit me. Typical conservative.
Everything you think you know you get from the media, and I got from experience. I'm sick of arrogant white liberals running arround flailing trying to "save" everyone. Its your worst racial flaw, seriously.
What do you want to wager that most of them agree with me and not you?
Are you saying that lack of black father's isn't a problem? Are you saying criminals aren't a problem? Are you honestly telling me white people cause crack addiction and parental irrisponsibility? Those are the two worst issues facing the black community- and neither of them are caused by whites. Whites don't cause black on black crime, whites aren't pulling the drive bys. Whites aren't forcing men to sell drugs or join gangs or kill each other. Blacks are doing it. They weren't always that way.
Does the level of human flaws and failings just happen to be greater in the black community than in the white community?
Yes. In the famous words of MLK I'm judging them not on the color of thier skin but the content of thier character- and judging by your own set of statistics of blacks in prison or in poverty what does that say about how the black community is doing when 7 out of ten black children never meet thier fathers and 6 out of 10 commit felonies. There is a moral cancer in the black community these days, and there are plenty of intelligent black leaders who back that up. There are far too many that excuse it.
Lastly, I don't think that my personal experience is relevant; I don't think you'd agree with me even if I came from a different background.
Oh-kay. I'm supposed to call you an expert because there were a lot of black kids at your high school and you live in Brooklyn? Whoopie. I bet your Brown Stone is a regular Afrocentric hub. My point is- Cuban/Puertoricans don't look all that white. Mexicans don't look white. Chinese don't look white. Vietnamese don't look white. The middle easterners and Indians don't look white. They get by and thrive. Why doesn't the black community? Is it because there is some mass subconcious white consperacy to keep the black man down or could it be *ghasp* that blacks have been fucking up for the last 30 years!
But I do chafe at your unfounded implication that I've been cloistered in an all-white theoretical bubble.
You're a white attorney, what would give me that idea? You're like a lot of whites. I know, I'm half white. I know white people. Big arrogant savior complex. It makes you feel good to help the "poor" minorities. Don't you realize how condecending that is?
I happen to have been all over the "places that white guys aren't allowed to drive into."
I'm sure you've even driven through bed stuye.
I represented indigent clients in the South Bronx for eight years (first at the Hub, at 150th and Courtlandt, then near Hunts Point, at 163rd and Southern Blvd.)
Good for you. If anything defendants these days need good defense lawyers. To many pea barganing brokers out there. Keep that Legal Aid crusade going. Heck, I bet even some of your best friends are blacks. But tell me, how many blacks do you have in your family? I have a few. How many black roomates have you had? I've had four or five. In fact, I spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with my four black Army Buddies in the field living together for 3 months and we'll live together in Iraq for 15. You might know some blacks, I live with them. You can imply I'm a racist all you want. It won't get much milliage with my four best friends.
I attended a predominantly-black high school in Chicago
And I graduated from one in Detroit. You still don't get it. Point is, why is race an issue anymore? Because there are a few idiots in the world? Come on. Blacks need to get over it. If we were having this discussion 30 or 20 years ago I might see your point. But fact is now, its a dead issue. Whites aren't the problem anymore. The "system" isn't the problem anymore. No-a-days, Blacks aren't getting into college because they have shitty grades, they're going to prison because they gang bang, and they ditch thier children's mother's because they're lazy fathers.
Everything you think you know you get from the media, and I got from experience.
You're inflating the value of your anecdotal observations.
I'm sick of arrogant white liberals running arround flailing trying to "save" everyone. Its your worst racial flaw, seriously.
Glad you cleared that up about how race shouldn't be an issue anymore.
Are you saying that lack of black father's isn't a problem?
I'm dubious.
Are you saying criminals aren't a problem?
No.
Are you honestly telling me white people cause crack addiction and parental irrisponsibility?
No.
Those are the two worst issues facing the black community- and neither of them are caused by whites. Whites don't cause black on black crime, whites aren't pulling the drive bys. Whites aren't forcing men to sell drugs or join gangs or kill each other. Blacks are doing it. They weren't always that way.
Here's where I disagree. I don't think that drugs, crime, etc. cause the black/white disparity. I think that they're a by-product of the same history that's behind the black/white disparity.
Does the level of human flaws and failings just happen to be greater in the black community than in the white community?
Yes.
And how'd that happen, hm?
Oh-kay. I'm supposed to call you an expert because there were a lot of black kids at your high school and you live in Brooklyn? Whoopie.
As much of an expert as living in a one-bedroom apartment on Staten Island makes you. Whoopie.
Cuban/Puertoricans don't look all that white. Mexicans don't look white. Chinese don't look white. Vietnamese don't look white. The middle easterners and Indians don't look white. They get by and thrive.
First of all, it's not just about what you look like. All of the groups that you mentioned have different histories from African-Americans. Second, your premise wrong. On lots of the indicia like crime, income, and welfare, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Southeast Asians (and Russians, who are white) fare just as badly, and in some cases, worse, than African-Americans.
It makes you feel good to help the "poor" minorities. Don't you realize how condecending that is?
Right, so much more respectful to say what you did, that black people are less virtuous than white people.
I think that black people (and everyone) should get the same advantages white people have gotten. If you think that's "condescending," then call me condescending.
If anything defendants these days need good defense lawyers. To many pea barganing brokers out there.
I didn't practice criminal law.
Heck, I bet even some of your best friends are blacks. But tell me, how many blacks do you have in your family? I have a few. How many black roomates have you had? I've had four or five. In fact, I spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with my four black Army Buddies in the field living together for 3 months and we'll live together in Iraq for 15. You might know some blacks, I live with them. You can imply I'm a racist all you want. It won't get much milliage with my four best friends.
Bra-fucking-vo. I don't happen to think that my personal experience is relevant. You're the one who brought it up. Nice set-up! If I ignore it, it's as if I concede the point, and if I address it with stuff about my personal background, you get an opportunity to use the "some of my best friends" taunt (which is kind of bizarre, because then you explicitly try to bolster your own credibility with it.)
Free0352, I fear that you may have fallen for oldest trick in the book: "divide and conquer". Capitalist countries have a vested interest in encouraging complaints such as yours and keeping minorities pitted against one another. There is no compassion or sense of community in your words, and that suits the ruling classes just fine. Placing all the blame on African-heritage people for their problems distracts everyone from the real problems in our system which limit our freedoms, create inequities and injustices, and prevent people from realizing their full potential.
If minorities in this country acted as a group, helped one another with their struggles, there's not much we couldn't achieve. We'd probably implement universal health care within a month. Maybe we're the last industrialized nation to do so because the ruling classes have done an excellent job exploiting ethnic tensions and keeping people isolated from one another. And just like slave owners who pitted house slaves against field slaves, whatever upward mobility you've admirably achieved in your life mostly serves the interests of the ruling classes, especially if you see yourself as superior to other classes and races of people. Isolating working class people from each other ensures that no one can complain too loudly when things get too tough for one particular group.
Not only does it seem that you've isolated yourself from your fellow man, you seem to want to isolate yourself from history. People from Asian and Latin American cultures often have particular patterns of behavior that are direct results of the history of colonialism. Respect for authority, distrust of outsiders, protection of the family unit, promotion of group needs over individual needs, are attitudes adopted and strengthened by colonized people in order to survive. Asians and Latinos have done an excellent job finding the positive aspects of their cultural patterns to find ways to succeed in this country.
African-heritage people have a much different history and much different cultural patterns that are direct results of the history of slavery and racism. Their enslavement lasted hundreds of years. They were not even considered human for much of that time. They were casually raped and beaten and humiliated for generations. In the post slave years, African-heritage people had to "know their place" or they were beaten and/or killed. We don't need to go down the list, nor do we need to tell you that this still happens. Many of the cultural patterns that emerged from that time haven't been so positive. Each generation thankfully passes down a little bit less of the stain of racism, but despite all the progress that minorities have achieved, it is absolutely preposterous for you to say that the past is irrelevant or even to suggest that the policies HP mentioned in his original post carry no legacy. I have no doubt that the scars of slavery and racism will heal one day. But that day has not yet come.
Furthermore, I think the resentment you carry is preventing you from seeing this issue clearly and from seeing all humanity as part of your community. I'm sure you've done very well for yourself, and I'm sure it was very hard. You may have been hurt by that struggle or in other ways. If you did indeed struggle and make great achievements, I can understand why you would displace your anger of having to go through that struggle and place it upon a group of people who you perceive as not living up to your standards. You may also have some anger toward some individuals that you haven't yet gotten out of your system.
Without resentment, we can look at situations clearly. And instead of placing blame on people we can find ways to be a part of the solution. Sure, the black community has to do a lot of work on its own, but it sounds like they could also learn a lot from you. Maybe they could use some more help. You obviously have figured some stuff out. Your cultural legacy informs you in some positive ways. If you can communicate some of that with love and compassion instead of anger and resentment, maybe you could be a great leader for all people.
I doubt my post will initially convince you of anything. You seem to have very rigid thinking. I'd encourage to really examine the causes of your resentment and ask yourself if you might see things differently if you were able to release some of it. I'd also encourage you to consider that your community could be all of humanity. If you read some more history, you may come to see that every society that has insisted on an "every man for himself" philosophy has failed.
Good luck.
--RATZLOW
0352 - i can kind of relate to your feelings that blacks cause black problems, but then again, i completely agree with ratzlow that much of the current status is a result of american cultural heritage, that, unfortunately is not really 20-30 years ago but still, unfortunately, exists.
we neighbor africa so we read about african war and poverty all the time; and these kind of 'black' problems exist widely in poor communities worldwide, including countries, as jack has pointed out, of russia where there is great disparity of rich and poor. i personally am in favor of education - free education - to our youth - of all ethnicities - to rid of bias and learn to embrace diversity and be a propeller of change - which, in fact, is precisely what jack is working on in his life - he has utilized his intimate experiences with the african-american people, as well as his education, to help people - in making a difference in society - which is what each of us strives to achieve - of whatever color we consider ourselves.
i agree with ratzlow that you've got a lot of tension inside that needs to be directed positively - and i personally think, that you may in fact have been brainwashed by your so-called friends, because it doesn't seem as if you are thinking for yourself, but that you are a product of your environment, and maybe some fresh air might help you out - why don't you take a trip to johannesburg - where you might feel right at home - and then, travel to capetown, and witness the difference - it is in fact, a difference of cultures - even within south africa itself - which i think is what ratzlow is saying - that what you experience is a subculture of american culture and it is transcended from american heritage culture, hence, other ethnicities are not enduring the same severity of problems and are adjusting better in american society as a result of their ethnic culture - much of this 'black' talk emerges from american culture - which, you share, being american - so stop with this chatter about 'black' blaming, and instead find a solution to your american crisis - i see africans who are rising to the challenge to stay together as families, to support their children by farming grains or weaving, or in fact, becoming educated. these african people have it a lot worse than you do being american and they are not complaining - be glad for your apartment - rather than living in a hut - be glad to be a member of the armed forces - they can educate you and protect you in your career - be glad that your mother [i presume]is alive and was able to support her family - all american granted - what you need to do is contact your congressional leadership and ask for a bill that sponsors education cost-free and that might solve the circular problems that you identify in your essay - also, one final word - you know how to read and write - get a dictionary - you've got a lot of typos.
Capitalist countries have a vested interest in encouraging complaints such as yours and keeping minorities pitted against one another.
Excuse me what? I decide what I’m “pitted against.” The problem when talking about the black community in this country is their over sensitivity to critisim and White fear in critizising glaring probmes or “telling it like it is.” I’m sorry, but the black culture has some real problems caused by them and not you. Whites have addressed almost all of their past sins in regard to blacks. Now its time for blacks to take responsibility. The Japanese were in internment camps only 60 years ago. They’re doing fine. Why not the blacks? American black culture is the answer. Its killing them and their too afraid to change.
There is no compassion or sense of community in your words,
I almost take that as a complement. I'm an individualist. We have racial communities in this country instead on one American community, thats the problem. I house divided cannot stand. That means white conservatives need to bend some to other cultures- but other cultures also have to assimilate to the majoirty to some degree if we’re going to have any kind of harmony here.
and that suits the ruling classes just fine.
Since when did we get a monarchy? I wasn’t aware my vote counted less than anyone else? As to what I do on my own, I can and have my
whole life done anything I wanted.
Placing all the blame on African-heritage
Please just say black. These people are no more african than you are. I lived in Africa for 13 months, that makes me more african than most blacks who claim it.
people for their problems distracts everyone from the real problems in our system
Conversly placing blame on “the system” in every regard distracts us from ligitimate probmes in the black community.
which limit our freedoms
Please explain to me which freedoms you’ve lost exactly? I haven’t lost any and I’m not even white.
If minorities in this country acted as a group, helped one another with their struggles, there's not much we couldn't achieve.
Or if we forgot petty differneces we wouldn’t have this problem.
We'd probably implement universal health care within a month.
Managed by whom? You trust the government too much. Name me one thing they do well? I’ll take my chances with Capitalism. Its pretty “unfair” and bloated but the alternative (the federal government) is too incompetent to handle the mail, let alone heart transplants. I’m against hiring the incompitent. In all areas, considering thier history I'd say blacks were better off handling thier own problems.
Maybe we're the last industrialized nation to do so because the ruling classes have done an excellent job exploiting ethnic tensions and keeping people isolated from one another.
Or perhaps they just don’t trust federal beurocrats with their health.
And just like slave owners who pitted house slaves against field slaves, whatever upward mobility you've admirably achieved in your life mostly serves the interests of the ruling classes,
I’d rather join them than beat them.
especially if you see yourself as superior to other classes and races of people.
I am not superiour because of my ethnic heritage or the color of my skin. I am either infirior or superiour directly as a result of my actions. All men are indeed "created equal" but as MLK said you should judge based on the content of character. Based on that the black community has some work to do, clearly.
Isolating working class people from each other ensures that no one can complain too loudly when things get too tough for one particular group.
How could the black community possibly complain any louder?
Not only does it seem that you've isolated yourself from your fellow man,
Quite the opposite. There is more bortherhood and loyalty in my community than any you’ve likely experienced. We could care less what race you are or where you came from or what your parents are. Everyone here is equal and judged upon their actions. Lets see if you can guess what community I’m proud to be a member of?
seem to want to isolate yourself from history.
Actually I minored in it in collage.
People from Asian and Latin American cultures often have particular patterns of behavior that are direct results of the history of colonialism.
I’m American first. Puerto Rico is just some island to me.
Respect for authority, What’s wrong with that? distrust of outsiders, Blacks aren’t outsiders. They are as American as I am, and have as much a duty to our country you and I have. protection of the family unit promotion of group needs over individual needs, Both again admirable traits.
But like you’ve said are attitudes adopted and strengthened by colonized people in order to survive. Asians and Latinos have done an excellent job finding the positive aspects of their cultural patterns to find ways to succeed in this country.
Exactly, blacks should do this also.
African-heritage people have a much different history and much different cultural patterns that are direct results of the history of slavery and racism.
Who cares? The slave owners and segregationists died. Its over. Time to move on.
We don't need to go down the list, nor do we need to tell you that this still happens.
Are there racists alive and well? Sure. So? Crying and whiing whon’t change their minds. In fact, screw these people. I don’t care what they think. I can be whatever I choose to be and do whatever I choose to do and the only person that can stop me is myself. All the racists in the world can’t stop me. The federal government stoped backing these loosers up a long time ago. Who cares about them anymore? Appherantly just a few liberals and bitter blacks. Time to forgive an move on.
it is absolutely preposterous for you to say that the past is irrelevant or even to suggest that the policies HP mentioned in his original post carry no legacy.
Whats perposterous is for the black community to hold white people who’ve never owned a slave or benifited from a Jim Crow law to hold them responsible for those who did. Never mind those that did are all dead.
I have no doubt that the scars of slavery and racism will heal one day. But that day has not yet come.
It will come when blacks set the old resentment down like the bag of bricks it is. There will always be stupid racist people of every color. So what? They shouldn’t be draging the rest of us down, and only do so because we let them. So to address HP’s post, I’d much prefer black youth emulate Condoleeza Rice than Rev White. One has done very well, one is a bitter freak who lives in a world of delusional paranoia. Listen to his sermons dude. What, are the Whites going to make ammends for killing Jeasus, introducing crack cocain and inventing aids? Of course not. Psyco’s like Wright are going to just be mad no matter what happens. They perpetuate racism like a pimp sells a whore.
Furthermore, I think the resentment you carry is preventing you from seeing this issue clearly and from seeing all humanity as part of your community.
I see America as my community, more over on a local level Baumholder Germany is my community. Race has nothing to do with it, and is pitiful more people can’t be more like me.
I can understand why you would displace your anger of having to go through that struggle and place it upon a group of people who you perceive as not living up to your standards.
The problem here is the black community isn’t even living up to their own standards, and too many of them blame white people for it.
You may also have some anger toward some individuals that you haven't yet gotten out of your system.
Oh yes, clearly. I am angry at those who keep the black community down. You should be too. Whats sad is more blacks aren’t. What’s even sadder is how “politically incorrect” it is to dare critizise the poor ever suffering blacks. Not giving frank answers to glaring problems due to fear of offending someone is silly. You talked about looking at situations clearly. We aren’t doing that purely out of political correctness. Can you imagine the outrage if George Bush or Hillary Clinton dared suggest that illigitimate children are killing the black community and more black men should step up and be fathers? They’d get impeached! The doublethink that goes on about this issue is why it drags on and on. If I dared say that black youth are over obsessed with a false materialistic, misogonistic and ignorant hip-hop culture I’m instantly a labeled a racist… never mind that what I’ve said is totally true. Instead of fixing the problem of undereducated black youth who choose the lowest of the low for role models because they have no fathers we focus on silly resume statistics and age old problems long since fixed. How realistic is that? How realistic is it for whites to mire in guilt and blacks to take advantage of it?
I doubt my post will initially convince you of anything.
Well, we can agree on some things… like the above statement ;)
You seem to have very rigid thinking.
I would say that would be you- mired in the “race relations of yesterday”
I'd encourage to really examine the causes of your resentment
If you’re trying to imply I’m racist- I’d again ask you to visit my 4 best friends all of whom are black and ask they what they think. I have to go because I’m dog sitting for one while he goes on emergancy leave. The man is giving me his dog for two weeks dude- what does that say about our relations?
Perhaps instead of a focus on our “divercity” we should instead work to become one people. Divercity sucks.
Paloma
Having lived in Djibouti for a year I think I got a decent understanding of the problems that face at least the Horn of Africa. They are completely unrelated to the ones American Blacks face. American blacks don't have to worry about ethnic cleansing, religious intollerance and persecution, tribalism, Islamism, and real crushing poverty and a hostile naturan environment. Most of thier problems are indeed self inflicted.
As to my tone. I'm a tough guy.
Free0352, there's much to respond to in your last post, but I suspect you're not budging an inch. If you're happy being a tough guy individualist who thinks that "divercity" sucks and would rather join the ruling class (the 1% of the nation that owns between 30-40% of its wealth) than eliminate class disparity, I find little opportunity for common ground. I'm heartened by my belief that your perspective seems to be on the wane.
--RATZLOW
Hey man, no problem there. I agree we have next to zero common ground. I'm not nor never have been interested in compromise. Nor am I interested in softening my tone. I tell it like it is, as I see it. You can accept it or not.
I answered your entire post point by point. As your post was long, so was my response. I understand if you don't have time to respond.
I am to answer your question, exceedingly happy being a tough guy. Perhaps you could try it. Its highly rewarding.
"Divercity sucks" pretty much sums up my entire arguement. We should be celibrating a melting pot, not our differences. We as a nation should all work to me more alike, not more different.
I object to your idea that there is a "ruling class" in this country. No one rules me. I rule me. I do whatever I want, whenever I want. I'm free as a bird. The only control over my life is control I submit to for personal gain. I have a boss, I do what he says or I get fired. Thats life. Beyond that, I have no issues.
There is a decided undurcurrent in your post of colectivism and thats unfortunate. I certainly can't think of a more failed and sad system known for its elitism and inequity. I sincearly hope you think your way out of the socialist class struggle. Its a myth and has killed more people than cancer.
now i'm only sixteen so i'm sure my age will discredit anything i say (talk about discrimination) but i was looking for information on racism and i came across this page. I was reading through your comments to each other (free && honest partisan) and i couldn't help but make a comment myself.
Ok, well i'm in northern Jersey, perdonimantly (yea i'm young andd i can't spell :P) white community. ontop of that alot of parents around here are in their mid to late 50s, so they grew up when segregation was still legal/just being made illegal. So many of the children in my community (meaning from lets say 10 or so to early to mid twents - not that theyy can really be called children) were raisedd racist.
Unfortunately this includes me. Now i'm not proud of it but i will not deny sometimes spitting out racial slurs just out of pure habit, its the enviroment i grew up in that taught me this. But that is not to say that i do not have black friends. It is not to say i've never dated a black boy or someone with a black background. It is not to say that i am one of those racists who won't even listen to a black artist, the music i listen to is almost all rap/hip-hop (i listen to mainstream).
Well back to your blogs . . .
i think you're both right . It's ignorant to say there is no more racism like i said i live through it every day. My father told me once that if i bring a black guy home to the dinner table i wouldnt be his daughter anymore, i was five . If thats not racism i honestly don't know what is. But its just as ignorant to say that blacks don't rely on the fact that racism is such a big issue, that people are so careful to not say any comment that may be considered racist.
For example, i asked my friend to get me a napkin cuz i was too lazy to get up. I've asked plantly of friends to do this for me before. She replied "just because i'm black doesn't mean i'm your slave." She had said that to other girls before to make them feel guilty. Its a total abuse of the fact that racism is relevant today. And girls who had openly made racial comments to me, when no one was there to judge them, stared at me in awe at my response. I simply stared her in the eyes and said, no you're not, never said you were, can you get me a napkin now? Nothing racist about it if you ask me. And how about the jobs i won't get or the colleges i won't get accepted to because they'll be trying to get other blacks in my possition so that the enviroment is "diverse" - a.k.a. so that they can avoid being said that they discriminate.
Again i'm only a teenager, maybe i don't know what i'm talking about. But i can say that i know that racism is around today, segregation is around today, regardless of laws against it. And i know also that there are people who have to be careful about what they say, so they don't sound racist; and people, particularly blacks, who use racism as a handicap, an excuse, to fit to their stereotype.
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